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[intro music – upbeat techno]

Marina: Hi. Welcome everyone to another episode of How to Language, a podcast about language learning for language learners. I'm Marina.

Jeremiah: And I'm Jeremiah.

Marina: And on today's episode, we're gonna be talking about the ideal multilingual self. 

 So Jeremiah, who is your ideal self? What does ideal Jeremiah look like? We're not thinking about language. 

Jeremiah: Okay. What, what are we thinking about?

Marina: Just anything, anything about yourself. And it can involve language. It's not just language. 

Jeremiah: Okay. Um, well, he has a six-pack. He can speak Mandarin, which I guess is a language thing. Um, uh, oh, he's a fa-- he's a, he's a successful novelist.

Marina: What kind of novelist?

Jeremiah: Historical vampire mystery fiction.

Marina: Love that [both laugh]. 

Jeremiah: Who's your ideal self? 

Marina: Um, an ideal Marina relearns Japanese. Which I guess is also a language thing.

Jeremiah: Yeah. You went right for the language thing.

Marina: Yeah. It's, well, it's hard cuz that's what, that's a big part of our lives. Language. An ideal Marina travels frequently. 

Jeremiah: Mm-hmm. But also lives in a home.

Marina: But also lives in a very homely home.

Jeremiah: Mm-hmm. And has disposable income. 

Marina: Yep. 

Jeremiah: Ideally. 

Marina: Mm-hmm. Yep. Embroiders frequently. And teaches people about languages.

Jeremiah: Yeah. Okay. So, okay, so is your ideal self just all the things that a person says they're gonna do at New Year's, but doesn't actually do? Like, is that what we're talking about right now? 

Marina: Might be one interpretation. Yeah. [laughs]

Jeremiah: Okay.

Marina: Well, this idea of ideal self is actually a real term. It's a real concept in psychology. Actually. This idea originally came from psychology, and the ideal self is, very basically, the person that you want to be, right? When you [00:02:00] envision yourself, your ideal self, like you're living your best life, let's say 10 years from now, what does that person do on an, on an everyday basis? What activities do they partake in? What career do they have? What characteristics do they have? Right? What's their personality like? All of those things. It's almost like you're talking about a different person because you're imagining yourself, but different. 

Jeremiah: Did we really need psychology to tell us that? I feel like, you know, people since the dawn of time have wished that they were better people or more active or creative or successful.

Marina: Well, Jeremiah, if you know anything about academia, [Jeremiah laughs] you know that we have to put a label on everything, [both laugh] but what, what's relevant about this is that yes, I'm sure since the dawn of humanity we've been doing this.

But in terms of psychology, and as we'll see later with language acquisition, the ideal self is a really useful framework for thinking about motivation.

Because if you are able to envision your ideal self, that means that you have a goal to work towards. You have this vision in your head, this sort of intangible, tangible goal that you can then work towards. And if you don't have that, if you know anything about motivation and psychology, having a goal really helps you work towards that.

So, ideal self comes up in discussions of motivation, self-improvement, decision making, you know, things like career changes, like, oh, “which job should I take?” Well, which one is gonna get you closer to your ideal self? Things like that.

Jeremiah: So, this wouldn't be a language podcast if I didn't ask: what, what, what actually does that have to do with language learning?

Marina: Yeah. So that is a fair question.

Have you ever heard this quote? It's usually attributed to Charlamagne, but with stuff like that, who knows who actually said it, but for some reason, Charlamagne is said to have said this.

Jeremiah: Chuck [00:04:00] the big.

Marina: Chuck the—[laughs]

Jeremiah: That's what Charlamagne means. 

Marina: Yeah [laughs]. 

Jeremiah: Chuck the big, big Chuck. What does big Chuck say?

Marina: Well, big Chuck says: “To have another language is to possess another soul.” 

Jeremiah: Mm-hmm. 

Marina: I don't know. I see this a lot in like boomer memes and quotes on Goodreads, that kind of thing.

But it's actually a really neat quote because I think that something that a lot of people discover when they acquire new languages, is that, when you use another language, you sometimes feel like you're a different person, or at least a different version of yourself.

Like some people report like your personality changing when you speak in your L2 versus your L1, or certain languages in your repertoire are associated with different people, different places, and different experiences. And so they kind of exist in different domains of your life, which can make you feel like a different version of yourself. Do you relate to that at all?

Jeremiah: Actually yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It's kind of like how, you know, how like, like smell is really closely connected with memory in your, in your brain where like if you smell something, it can like, take you right back to a memory.

Marina: Mm-hmm. 

Jeremiah: I feel like in a similar way, it seems like language is really just closely associated with identity to such an extent that at least for some people, you know, like you're saying, speaking in another language--it's not that fundamentally you're a different person, but it's like a different aspect of your same personality maybe.

Marina: Do you feel like different versions of yourself when you speak other languages?

Jeremiah: Yeah. Yeah. I think I do, especially languages that I'm—that I have like more confidence in like Spanish and Latin because I feel like the language that you speak, or the language that you're like currently speaking, not only is it closely connected with your identity, but it's connected to your positionality.

[00:06:00] Maybe so, like, you know, me, a white guy speaking English is like, okay, whatever. That's, that's to be expected probably [laughs]. But like when I'm speaking Spanish, like I'm not just speaking Spanish, like I'm taking part in, um, a pretty vital part of a culture that isn't really mine. 

And that, you know, like, it, it, it's, it's coming from a place that I'm not used to coming from. And so, it makes me think of myself in a different way, I guess. In, in, in those situations. With Latin, I guess it's a little bit different because the culture of Latin isn't really, or classical Latin isn't around anymore. And so in a certain sense it's almost a little bit like time travel.

Marina: Mm-hmm. 

Jeremiah: With Latin, because especially when you speak it, when I speak it, I feel like I'm a lot closer to that part of history than I could be just like looking at pictures or reading about things because it's like, you know—Oh, you know what it's kinda like? It's kinda like if you go to a museum–I guess you can't do this, but if you could—if you go to a museum and like you pick up like a real artifact from the past—

Marina: Uh-huh, you can't do that [both laugh]

Jeremiah: You can't do that! But if you could, you know, and you'd be like, “wow, somebody hundreds of years ago touched the same thing that I'm touching.” Language is kind of like that, where if you can say the same words that somebody else said thousands of years ago, you really feel like you're, kind of, you know, bridging those two times. 

Marina: I know what you mean.

Jeremiah: Yeah, it's, it's, you feel like you're kind of linking up with something that's bigger than yourself. 

Marina: Yeah. 

Jeremiah: And when it's your first language, you're kind of used to it. But when it's another language, you know, you're linking up to something that's bigger than yourself that you're not usually linked up to. Which, yeah, I guess it just, it just, uh, it hits different.

Marina: Yeah. It's like in Avatar when they [Jeremiah wheezes] link up their hair to the, to the flying creatures? 

Jeremiah: Yep. [both laugh] Yep.

Marina: Going back to language, there was this linguist named Zoltán Dörnyei. He was Hungarian, that's why his name is so cool. And he [00:08:00] realized that this concept from psychology, this concept of the ideal self could be applied to linguistics and language acquisition and ideas of multilingualism.

He saw that learning a language isn't like learning other subjects in quite the same way. It's not like learning math, it's not like learning science. Language acquisition is like a whole-self-transformation. You are transforming your identity, as we were talking about. Learning other languages, it's like tapping into something larger than yourself and it has a profound impact on you as a person. When you acquire a second language, you have become a multilingual person. When you learn a math formula you've gained a skill, but it's not a whole-self-transformation.

Jeremiah: I guess in a sense it's more like, you know, getting your PhD. In the sense that after you get your PhD, you're always gonna be a person who has a PhD. You're always gonna be a doctor.

Marina: Mm-hmm.

Jeremiah: And so on the level of your identity, it's a fundamental transformation. And so it's similar in that respect. Also, I think because language is so closely connected with identity, partly because it's like one of the main ways that we kind of interface with the world around us. 

Marina: Yeah. 

Jeremiah: You know, in the same way that we use our hands to manipulate objects around us, we use language to basically do every social action that there is that you can do.

Marina: Mm-hmm.

Jeremiah: Almost. Learning another language would be like, I don't know, like unscrewing your hand and screwing on like a shovel. Like now you're a shovel person [both start cracking up]. So, and so that's not a great analogy, but, um…

Marina: No that's perfect. That's exactly [both laugh] what I'm trying to, to get across.

Jeremiah: Yeah, exactly. Who's your ideal shovel, shovel person?

Marina: Um, no. But yeah, learning a different language, it changes your mind. It changes your body in a lot of instances, acquiring [00:10:00] new sounds or new hand shapes. It changes your identity. It changes how you communicate, like you said, how you look at and interact with the world.

Therefore, this desired transformation, right? So when we're imagining ourselves acquiring more languages, surely this has an influence on our motivation to learn that other language.

Because remember, ideal self has a lot to do with motivation. Being able to visualize your future self is a powerful motivating factor.

And so Dörnyei created this theoretical framework drawing from the ideal self concept from psychology, and he created the L2, if you remember, second language, Motivational Self System.

Even though it's called the L2 (second language) Motivational System, it doesn't have to be the L2. This can refer to your L3, your L4, your L5, whatever, right? 

So this framework, this L2MSS [chuckles] um, has three main components. Okay? 

The first one, Dornier calls the ideal L2 self. So not just the ideal self, we're specifically talking about what does your future self look like in the context of learning your L2. So who do you talk to? What is your social circle like in this target language? Are you going to school? Do you have a job where you use that language on a daily basis? What kinds of experiences are you having? Are you traveling? Are you living somewhere else? That kind of thing, right?

Jeremiah: Mm.

Marina: But of course this is also within reason. It's one thing to say, “oh, I'm going to learn Japanese,” but it's another thing to say, “oh, I'm gonna learn these 50 languages to[00:12:00] complete fluency in the next 10 years.” Right? Um, that, you know, it's not going to be helpful in terms of motivation if it's not within reason.

So the second part of this framework is called the Ought-To L2 self. Ought-to as in O-U-G-H-T.

Jeremiah: Should, should, should, should, shoulda-do. 

Marina: The should L2 self.

Marina: Yeah. And it's what it sounds like. It's a vision of what you should become or you know, what you ought to do in order to avoid certain negative consequences.

So usually this comes from like external pressures, like expectations and responsibilities that come from society, family, peers, et cetera, right?

So for example, your boss tells you that you need to pass this English test, and English is your L2, in order to get a promotion or something like that. That would be an Ought-To L2 self. Even if you want that promotion intrinsically, there's an external pressure to become this different version of yourself lest you get less pay, right?

Jeremiah: Mm-hmm.

Marina: So that would be an example of like Ought-To L2 self. Ought-To L2 self can be a good motivator, but in order to optimize this, right, it should overlap, at least somewhat with the ideal L2 self, and we'll get to that a little bit later.

Jeremiah: So what's the relevance of the Ought-To L2 self for somebody who is studying another language purely out of interest or, you know, like they're not doing it for a job, they're not doing it for citizenship status, maybe they're doing it for a school requirement, but that’s…

Marina: Mm-hmm.

Jeremiah: Does everyone have an Ought-To L2 self?

Marina: [00:14:00] I think there's probably different degrees of the Ought-To L2 self in different people, depending on the reason that they're learning that language. For some people who are, let's say, learning a language in high school and they don't really want to be there, they probably only have an Ought-To L2 self. Because they are just doing it to pass a test. Their ideal L2 self is just them passing, like their oral exam at the end of the semester. Otherwise they'll get a bad grade. Whereas for some people, the, the Ought-To L2 self might be very minimal, but I think a lot of times, and this is just me kind of speculating on this, I feel like there's always going to be some degree of that, even if we don't realize it. Like for example, going back to the native speaker fallacy, there might be like this Ought-To L2 self in a lot of us that's saying “we need to sound like native speaker.” “We need to improve our pronunciation to sound like native speakers, otherwise we will be made fun of or nobody will understand us,” or something like that.

So, basically you would be doing that for other people, for external forces. And so I, that still is kind of falling under that Ought-To L2 self. Ought-to is not a bad. It's just an additional motivating factor and when it's combined with your personal ideal L2 self, that's when the magic happens.

Jeremiah: Right. It's kind of like, uh, you know, sink or swim. It's not ideal by itself, but you know, you will probably learn how to swim. 

Marina: Right. [chuckles] 

Jeremiah: Right. Especially if you want to swim anyway.

Marina: Yeah, exactly.

Jeremiah: Gotcha. Got a lot of analogies today.

Marina: Yeah, no, that's good.

And then the last component of this framework from Dörnyei is the L2 learning experience.

So all of these things, all these “selfs” that exist within us aren't [00:16:00] super useful unless the actual learning of the language is a positive experience. 

It doesn't matter how badly you want to learn Turkish. If you have a negative learning experience, then no level of motivation is going to get you to your ideal L2 self. So, Dörnyei argues that learning a language is full of both positive and negative experiences. Positive experiences include things like feeling like you're making progress, having an epiphany about a certain grammar concept, having fun, deriving joy from the process. Whereas negative experiences could be things like frustration, irritation, boredom, anxiety, fear, right? These are the negative experiences that can happen. And chances are you're going to get a mix of both at one point or another. If you learn a language for long enough, you're gonna get your dose of both.

But the key here is that these three components need to align in order to get the most motivation out of your ideal self.

So if your ideal L2 self and your ought-to L2 self are aligned, plus you have a sprinkle of positive learning experiences, then your motivation to learn the language will be very high. 

Intrinsically, you have a strong desire to learn the language. You have external forces that are providing accountability for that in a positive way. And you are in a learning situation or environment that you enjoy and that you're deriving energy from. That's a recipe for success according to Dörnyei. If these factors are misaligned, [00:18:00] right? If your ideal and ought-to selves are misaligned, they don't agree with each other, or if your learning environment is negative, then motivation will be low. Making sense? I know this is a lot.

Jeremiah: Yeah, I, yeah, I mean, I feel like a lot of it seems like, “oh yeah, you know what? That, that, that makes sense. That tracks.” I guess a lot of it seems like common sense, but at the same time, I have a feeling it's maybe not as simple as all of that?

Marina: No [both laugh]. And that's what we're going to get into.

Yeah. So this framework from Dörnyei has definitely received, its dose of criticism for various reasons, having to do with things like validity in measuring motivation. Motivation is very difficult to measure. But there's also been some very interesting criticisms that I wanted to talk about, and we'll put all of the sources for these in the show notes.

One criticism is that a lot of the research that has been done with the ideal L2 self model has been very English-centric. And this is a problem in all of second language acquisition research. This isn't just for this framework. Most of it studies people who are learning English and not languages other than English. Not as often. And so this leads to a very skewed view of this framework and just second language acquisition in general, because learning languages, other than English often is very different, which is funny because it's just one language. Like how could one language be so different from the other ones?

And I think it has a lot to do with the prestige and the, and the ubiquity of English nowadays that, you know, again, we could do a whole episode on, but very, basically, English [00:20:00] is sort of an unofficial lingua franca all over the world, meaning that it's used almost as a default language in a lot of international spaces.

In schools around the world, usually, not always, but usually kids will learn English as their foreign language in school as opposed to other languages. Um, or at least that's the one that's most widely offered as a foreign language. And so the English speaking community around the world is so incredibly vast. It's one of, it's not one of, if not the most spoken language in the world, including L1 and L2 speakers?

Jeremiah: Yeah. I think it depends on how you count it. 

Marina: Right.

And so when you're learning English, you're becoming part of a global community of English speakers. But when you're learning a language other than English, it's most likely going to be tied to a specific speech community.

So again, going back to this, if you're learning Turkish, you're probably learning it to speak to people in Turkey. Or people who are from Turkey and are living in another place. Right. I can't just walk out my door and find somebody who speaks Turkish.

Jeremiah: Right, right. It's like if you live in Thailand, and you learn English, you might be learning English so that you can talk to people from Kurdistan and do business with people from Mongolia. 

Marina: Exactly. Whereas these countries that don't, you know, where English is not necessarily an official language or widely spoken, but it's the lingua franca for things like work and education and things like that. It's more widely used in a, in a, in a lot of different domains.

But when you're wanting to be part of a very specific speech community, it’s a completely different kind of motivating factor than wanting to acquire the global lingua franca. Those are two dif-- two very different things. 

Also the reasons for learning English [00:22:00] versus another language are very different. They can span different domains, so typically, not all the time, but typically people learn English for career purposes. They learn it for their work.

But when somebody is learning, I don't know why Turkish is my example today [chuckles]. I just keep thinking of Turkish. But if you're learning Turkish, you know, it could be for work, but it could also be because you want to study abroad in Turkey, or you have friends from Turkey, or you have family from Turkey. And not that those things can't be the case for English. This is just a tendency, this is just like a trend, right?

Jeremiah: Yeah.

Marina: And so, when we're looking at language other than English, it can be very different. So that's why this English centricity can be a little bit biased. 

Jeremiah: A lotta bit biased. 

Marina: Oh yeah. [both laugh]

And then another result of that English centricity is a monolingual bias.

A monolingual bias is a bias or an assumption that monolingualism is the default.

Jeremiah: Yeah.

Marina: And then multilingualism is something that is unique. It's the exception. But as many of us know, multilingualism is very much the norm in most of the world. Right. It's often in the English-speaking world that monolingualism is more common. And so, when you're very English-centric, you treat monolingualism as the norm, and then you're acquiring all these languages on top of it from there. But in the rest of the world, you might grow up with two or three languages, that can be very common. And then beyond that, you already have this multilingual self that already exists within you. And so, you know, it gets a little bit complicated, but these are some of the issues that come up with the ideal L2 self.

Another interesting thing that I wanted to mention [00:24:00] was, a lot of conversations around motivation and language learning sort of assumes that the language learning, that the learning of the target language is voluntary. It doesn't consider how identity and motivation can change or differ when you're not learning a language by choice, for example, in immigration and refugee situations. In fact, when I went to the TESOL International Conference in Portland this past March, I went to a talk about the ideal multilingual self framework being used with North Korean refugees living in the United States. And that was an example of, learners who, who were acquiring, you know, North Koreans who were learning English or had acquired English not necessarily by choice. It's not that they wanted to, it was more a means of survival. You know, living in this new country that they were not really anticipating living in. And so that situation is very unique. 

So in response to all of these criticisms, this other scholar named Alastair Henry came up with a modified framework that he calls the ideal multilingual self. So instead of the ideal L2 self, it's the ideal multilingual self. And one of the things that Henry took issue with was that Dörnyei’s model highly encourages separate ideal selves. So again, monolingual bias [chuckles]. This idea that like, okay, you start with your L1 and then you have an L2 and L3 and an L4 ideal selves, right? There's multiple things going on. And this treats different languages as separate entities, which is probably [00:26:00] something we can talk about more when we talk about translanguaging. 

Jeremiah: Yeah. 

But basically it treats languages as separate identities instead of one unified system, which runs the risk of all these different selves conflicting with each other. Or being in disagreement with each other or different selves becoming more dominant than others. And dominance of selves can lead to decreases in motivation because those ideal selves that have been subjugated are less likely to be motivating factors because they're not as, as important in your ecosystem of selves.

And it also can even lead to things like language loss. If your motivation is so low, then you might lose that language down the line. 

Jeremiah: Are we talking about a first language or a second language? 

Marina: Either really, it can happen with your first language too, especially if you're very young and this is happening. Um, that can absolutely happen. People can lose their first languages, unfortunately.

Jeremiah: Yeah. Cuz I mean like if you immigrate to another country…

Marina: Mm-hmm. 

Jeremiah: And your first language isn't valued, then you know, according to this model, your, yourself as someone who speaks that language isn't valued.

Marina: Exactly. 

And if you don't have a use for, and you're not only expected, but you're only really encouraged to be the you that speaks the language of the country you're in, like English, then yeah, you, that'll, that'll just become more and more who you are and who you are as, as a person who speaks your first language will, will be, you know, less and less.

Marina: Exactly. Exactly. And that's one of the things that Henry is taking issue with, right? So instead of framing it as like, you becoming a new monolingual person, instead you are [00:28:00] becoming a multilingual person, still honoring all of the previous languages that you have in your repertoire. And now also then, you know, acquiring this additional language.

Jeremiah: Right. Because like if you learn Turkish.

Marina: [snickers]

Jeremiah: And your first language is English, then you know, you just see why, why Dörnyei’s model doesn't really hold up. Because even if you become super proficient in Turkish, that's not gonna make you Turkish. You're still gonna be somebody who's first language is English who has learned Turkish. Like you can't get away from that identity. You, you just now have a new identity as someone who knows both.

Marina: Exactly. And there's a hundred percent nothing wrong with that. And that's what Henry's model is trying to emphasize. But this sort of Dörnyei version, this version that's like, “oh, all the selves are separate,” Henry calls this the contentedly bilingual self. The word bilingual kind of emphasizes that the languages are separate and there's two of them.

Jeremiah: Yeah

Marina: Whereas, you know, as we've been talking about the alternative that he presents is the ideal multilingual self, where the languages that exist within you exist harmoniously. They're all contributing to one unified self. Which as a bonus, Henry argues, is a far more powerful motivator than trying to become another monolingual person.

Jeremiah: Absolutely. Because it's like we talked about in the native speaker fallacy episode, if you're trying to be a monolingual in the language that you're learning, you're never gonna succeed. And that, that is gonna tank your motivation because you know you're not gonna see the results that you're expecting. And after a while, you're gonna, you're gonna lose interest and you're gonna lose motivation. Whereas, yeah. Having a, a clear idea of your ideal multilingual self, like that is [00:30:00] actually attainable.

And it has the, the added benefit of every time you check in, you're gonna find that you are achieving it. 

Marina: Yeah. 

Jeremiah: Because, even if you're only a couple months in on your second language that you're learning, you're already more of your multilingual self than you were when you started, whereas you're not gonna be any closer to being a, a monolingual of Turkish or whatever.

Marina: Exactly, and I feel like that's my experience learning Spanish. Now that I have different perspectives on language acquisition and motivation and native speakerism and things like that, I’ve found that my experience learning Spanish has been so much more positive because I'm not reaching for this end goal that feels so, so, so, so far away. It more feels like every single day that I learn Spanish, I am just feeding my multilingual self.

Jeremiah: Mm-hmm.

Marina: And that alone is very fulfilling. You know, of course there's always forward progress and momentum, and I know that, you know, there are higher levels of proficiency that I'm sort of aiming towards. But it's like every day that I study Spanish is, I don't know, it feels like a bigger deal than it did when I learned languages before.

Jeremiah: Yeah. I feel like it's related to a lot of. Ideas, like, you know, trusting the process as opposed to focusing on, you know, the end point or, oh, it's not the destination, it's the journey. It's kind of like that. Um, it's also a little bit like setting, you know-- Like if you have a big thing that you have to do, setting smaller, achievable goals on the way there.

I think it's related to all of those because it's taking that emphasis off of something that's really far away in the distance, if it's there at all, which with, you know, achieving native fluency, like it's not actually there, it's a mirage. Whereas [00:32:00] this is like every day that you do it, you are achieving your, your goal because your goal is to continue to be a multilingual self.

And because you're always learning not just your second language, but your first language, then just by showing up for it, you're achieving it, you're doing it. You're, you're, -- you are your ideal, multilingual self just by, you know, showing up and continuing to learn.

Marina: Yeah. I love that. Okay, so now that we've gotten all the theory out of the way, how can this be relevant to us? Like, how can we apply this idea of the ideal multilingual self to our language learning? 

Jeremiah: I mean, first things first, you could answer the question that is in the title of this episode, which is, “who is your ideal multilingual self?” Because if you don't know that, then what are you actually aiming at? So yeah, who is your ideal multilingual self? You know, what do they look like? What do they sound like? What do they do?

Marina: You can journal, you can free-write, brainstorm, draw a mind map, whatever method you prefer to get a clear idea of what attributes you want to possess as a multilingual person.

Jeremiah: And it's not just about setting goals, because that's important too. You’re setting goals, but you're connecting them with your identity. And an identity that you want to assume. 

Marina: Yeah. It's like imagining how you're going to feel later.

Jeremiah: Yeah.

Marina: Which is a popular method in productivity circles as well as, and goal setting is to like, imagine how you're going to feel and when you have an emotional connection to it, it can be a lot, a lot stronger of a motivator.

Jeremiah: Use that frontal lobe. That's what it's there for.

Marina: That’s right. And we encourage you to also dig deeper than just, “oh, well my ideal multilingual self sounds like a native speaker.” Right. As we've discussed, that is kind of a mirage. But also we wanna dig a little bit deeper into what [00:34:00] does multilinguality mean to you?

Right. So some questions to kind of get you started with this might be: In what settings are you using your languages? Is there a specific country or region? Are you using them in work? In school? Are you using them simultaneously? Are you using them in different circumstances? 

And who are you speaking to? Are you speaking to friends, family, coworkers, teachers, other learners? 

Jeremiah: Language is, it's more than this, but it is a tool. And there's no like one tool that can do every job. And this is a tool that you have to build. And so to make the most of your time and effort, what are you gonna use the tool for basically?

Marina: Exactly. Similarly, in those circumstances, what topics do you talk about? What kind of things do you talk about with your friends? What kind of things do you talk about at work or in school or with your family? That might help guide what kind of vocabulary you add to your deck or what kind of grammar you want to acquire, what kind of colloquialisms or slang you want to acquire, if any.

What opportunities, benefits, or outcomes have resulted from you speaking multiple languages? Has it enhanced your career prospects? Have you gotten that promotion you were looking for? Have you done a career change maybe because of your multilingual self? Has it allowed you to travel the world more and make friends around the world? What have you achieved because of your multilingual self? 

It's also important to think about what challenges do you face as you work towards your ideal multilingual self.

Do you think that you'll need to take classes and are those classes difficult for you to attend for whatever reason? And how are you going to navigate that? How are you going to overcome that to become your ideal multilingual self? Are you going to have to create a self-study plan? Are you going to have to find a tutor? How are you going to find that [00:36:00] tutor? What kind of tutor are you going to look for? Right? Thinking about those challenges ahead of time might help you think of ways to overcome them. 

Also, don't forget to think about your ought-to self as well. Even though sort of shifted to Henry's ideal multilingual self model, this ought-to self can still be a factor in motivation, as we talked about, like external factors at play. So are there any external pressures or any external factors that are involved in your language learning journey? If there are, go ahead and list them, uh, whether they're positive or maybe more negative, whether they're work-related or education-related or family-related. 

And then once you've done that, once you've thought of your ideal self and your ought-to self, go ahead and compare them and see if there's any alignment, right? Remember we talked about that. When these things are aligned, that's when we get that high level of motivation. So see if there's any alignment. 

So for example, if you really want to study abroad in Turkey [chuckles] and you're learning Turkish to help with that, but also you have to take a certain number of Turkish classes at your college in order to meet the minimum requirements for the program, that right there is an alignment of your ideal and ought-to self, which means that taking those classes is going to be, um, a lot easier because you're highly motivated to do so for multiple reasons. Okay. So any areas of alignment, that is where you wanna focus and that's where you wanna pay attention to in terms of coming up with strategies and plans for acquiring your target languages. 

And last but not least, Dörnyei also talked about having positive learning experiences. So just have fun!

Jeremiah: Have fun!

Marina: Learning languages is so much fun. And actively trying to [00:38:00] make the learning process more fun is going to make for more positive learning experiences, and it's gonna make the process so much easier and more enjoyable.

So whether that's gamification, whether that's finding people to talk to, whatever fits your learning style, try and make it fun. That's a real tip from actual language scientists: have fun.

Jeremiah: Have fun!

Marina: Um, my mom, whenever we would be doing an activity or playing a video game, and we would be like frustrated and we would like be irritated and everything like that, she'd say, “well, if you're not having fun, then uh, what's the point?”

Jeremiah: Yeah. You tell me that often. 

Marina: Yeah. And it's true.

Jeremiah: Yeah. So, uh, take that big Chuck. [Marina laughs]

[outro music]

Jeremiah: Thank you for tuning in to How to Language. If you want to keep in the loop regarding upcoming episodes or just want to enjoy some language-themed memes, be sure to follow us on Instagram @howtolang and on the platform formerly known as Twitter under the same handle. 

Marina: Also, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback helps us improve and it helps others discover the show as well.

Jeremiah: With that, see you next time!

Marina: Bye!